saveyourselves | Plot post for April 9th!

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plot post

Plot post for April 9th!

This format of plot post is designed for players to ask questions and find ways to influence the plot. Be bold and ask what you can or can't do; the worst that can happen is that we will say no. As plots in Save the Earth are not self resolving nor on a time limit they can evolve in many ways. Although some potential outcomes are given, they are little more than suggestion and can be changed by character action. What role you take is up to you.

The post is also open for players to plot and coordinate between one another.

• This is another reminder that the original FAQ has been updated. We encourage old, new, and potential players alike to check it out here! Additions and edits have been marked.

• The is another reminder that the application has two new additions: Current characters in the game and Starting Location. If you or someone you know has already begun their application, please make the necessary edits! Characters who have already been accepted into the game do not need to retroactively add these sections to their applications.

• The location page for Las Vegas is here.

Events occurring currently:

• If your character was interviewed by news crews and/or did not conceal their identity during Wise Snake’s rampage, assume they have been or will be approached by the FBI by no later than April 11th. At this point, the FBI knows of the Network’s existence, of the so-called purpose of the reincarnates to “save the earth”, and the system of how a reincarnate gains a “pulse”/“Echo”. If there is other information more personal to your character that the FBI would have reason to question (special powers used during Wise Snake for example), include it in a comment to this thread.

• The FBI is still investigating Locke City Police Department.

• Wise Snake’s body remains taped off, though the amount of guards assigned to it has lessened. Rebuilding efforts continue. Approximately 40% of the damaged Business District has been reconstructed. The loudest of public opinion is evenly split between hailing Thunder Corp as amazing and criticizing Thunder Corp as suspicious.

• The Reddit subforum of reincarnate fans have voted. They’re calling themselves the seedlings and have even designed their own cute little logo with a picture of – you guessed it – a seedling.

• Vermini are still crawling around within the Las Vegas Echo boundary. Non-reincarnates continue to fail to notice them. As with previous encounters, Vermini they will flee from reincarnates. They evaporate into steam when killed.

Events occurring in the immediate future:

• Locke City is about to receive a new set of visitors. At the crack of dawn of April 12th, a silver-colored spaceship will land in the compound Thunder Corp constructed in the Dead District. The ship is curved and sleek, possesses no obvious weaponry, and has three inhabitants on board.

They are ready to meet the FBI agents who are quick to arrive to the scene. Every local news and radio station is talking about the ‘aliens’ that have touched down in Locke City. For three hours, the city is left in the dark as to what the arrival of this trio means.

After those three hours have passed, the leader of the group introduces themselves to the public. The introduction is broadcast live on local and national television, and consists of the following:

- The unspoken leader introduces himself as Geoff Benwick. He also introduces Badri Barkley and Meredith Chownyk, and says that they are using Earth names because their original names cannot be conveyed accurately with any of the Earth’s languages.
- They are all wearing male business attire. Geoff says they have done so because the attire seems appropriate.
- Geoff apologizes for the confusion and destruction that has occurred in Locke City.
- Geoff explains that the “alien” was a former comrade turned renegade. Like the trio, the “alien’s” name cannot be conveyed accurately, so they dub it “Tiny” for ease of communication. The trio have been watching Earth on and off for several decades, withholding involvement until now. Tiny was supposed to scout the Earth to determine whether or not the time was appropriate for them to become involved. However, Tiny deviated from the plan and took matters into its own hands – leading to the mess that accumulated in the Business District’s destruction.

The trio managed to make contact with Thunder Corp and set them on the correct path, but they were too late.

The trio are now here to set things right.
- Geoff says they will cooperate with the FBI and will take care of the item monsters currently plaguing the city.
- Geoff apologizes once more.
- Throughout the broadcast, Badri sports a casual smile and winces when Tiny is brought up. Meredith is unreadable.

Public reaction to the broadcast is favorable. Finally, an answer to all of this madness! More importantly, all of the reincarnates will consider Geoff trustworthy. In turn, they will have little reason to question his words. They will not experience mysterious feelings or “gut instincts” of suspicion or wariness. This effect of accepting one as trustworthy is limited to Geoff and in place until further notice.

This does not mean reincarnates cannot notice perceived contradictions. However, their reactions should be more along the lines of confusion rather than outright suspicion or betrayal – because they will still consider Geoff trustworthy.

EDIT (04/10/2014): Clarification of Geoff's effect.

Geoff is extremely charismatic, which is enhanced by an effect amounting, essentially, to a stronger version of the influencing effect from David Proud’s snake statues, affecting any who see or hear him; the effect is not mind control, but strong suggestion. At present, everyone will feel strongly compelled to trust him – and reincarnates are no exception, although their trust may be viewed as contradictory, baffling, or otherwise too good to be true, given the information and experiences they possess.

We ask that this questioning not happen instantly, but rather build up over time. Outside reasons to distrust Geoff and break away from his effect will, and always intended to be, given to characters.

• Two days after the arrival and broadcast of the trio, all of the item monsters will be dealt with thanks to the efforts of the trio and the FBI. This means April 13th is the last day for item monster shenanigans.

• On April 15th, Detective Sherman will be arrested on charges of what amounts to ‘abuse of authority.’ He will be tried, found guilty, and shipped off to prison to serve ten years by the end of the month along with a bunch of other corrupt cops. All of the corrupt cops, actually. This includes Chief Edwards.

Edwards’ position will be filled by a transfer from out of the city. This transfer is not appable.

Geoff, speaking for the trio again, makes another public apology, stating that the corruption in Locke’s PD was also a result of Tiny’s misconduct. He says they worked together with the FBI to sort things out and bring the guilty parties to justice.

Potential Echo Opportunities

• Watching or hearing the trio’s broadcast will grant one plot Echo. Reading or hearing about the broadcast second-hand will not grant an Echo.
• Interacting with one of the monsters that began on March 29th and ends April 12th will grant one plot Echo. Only one Echo can be gleaned from these monsters regardless of how many monsters a character interacts with and it will always be from the first interaction.
• Recordings of the pink light that went up in Las Vegas on March 23rd no longer grant a plot Echo.
• As always, canon recurrences grant related Echoes!

Please direct questions regarding these plot points to the thread below and not the post in general.

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I'm actually really uncomfortable with part of this plot right now. To flat out say "your character will trust this NPC" is not something I'm comfortable with. This is a non-opt out mind control plot and I don't like it. You are asking me to write my character in a way that is contrary to his nature with no indication that this is a temporary condition or giving reason for it. Please reconsider that section of the plot to include some form of opt-out.

Seconding this. Mind control of any kind is a strong quick for me, and this is making me severely uncomfortable.

I'm really uncomfortable with it too, especially the indefinite time span. If it was only supposed to last for a week or two and I knew that, or if it was opt-out, I wouldn't mind so much, but the way it's presented right now is hitting some very unpleasant buttons.

goooonnna have to fourth this. I understand WHY you guys are doing it, but it seems too heavy handed, put this way. Maybe a softer inclination to trust the guy instead of an outright "your character will trust him, no stop"

Edited 2014-04-09 19:14 (UTC)

Yeah, I could work with a soft nag or something. Even a "Your character just seems to want to trust this guy" I could work with! But not a blank cheque for 100% trust.

I'd be down for the "subtle subliminal nudge" too, that would be much more comfortable and less likely to force characters to be OOC for the sake of the plot. Or a "your character can't find anything wrong with his logic/explanation, everything checks out" - that would be really fun to play with in terms of the variety of character reactions IMO. This "total character hijack until further notice" is not on, though.

This would resolve like all my hangups with the issue right here. Because L trusts no one it would be inherently weird to him if he did suddenly trust a person without cause, which would raise a lot of red flags.

I feel like that's what they already mean I suppose.

random icon button does not reflect my mood in this regard :P

Fifthing this. (Plus since psychic powers/suggestion of this kind doesn't ever come up in her canon, I've been more-or-less assuming that Mind Guardians have the ability and responsibility to stop that kind of thing from happening, and she's got one...)

Edited 2014-04-09 19:16 (UTC)

+1 to this. I understand it's probably an attempt to get around the "players automatically distrust mod NPCs without cause" complaint (which I've dealt with before as a mod and will not deny is a problem), but it seems like a misguided solution.

What makes me most uncomfortable with it is that it seems to shut down any characters who would be suspicious of their own trust, and if that's an IC response for a character, it should be allowed. And what about characters who might be immune to psychological influence and/or mind-control as a power?

I feel it essentially boils down to a mod decree that may force certain characters to act OOCly for the sake of the plot, and I feel that sets a very uncomfortable precedent.

Another +1, here. It just seems too heavy-handed. An influence, and inclination toward trust? That, I'm fine with. But with things stated as they are, it's just very uncomfortable for me. And as player with a character who is very plot driven, I can't exactly exclude him from the plot as a whole; it wouldn't make sense for him.

Also, if the aliens are capable of that level of complete mind control, then it's basically game over, isn't it? You're giving them a power that cannot be contested or fought, which means it's their win no matter what the players do.

Edited 2014-04-09 19:44 (UTC)

This.

The entire story falls apart if the aliens have an ability that powerful. Why are they even bothering with any of this, then?

I'm also worried about the implications of mods being able to decree what character reactions to plot events will be. This has always been a game where player actions determine the course of events, and I don't want to see it become a game where the mods railroad player actions to fit the plot they have in mind instead.

ETA: it also means that Geoff can basically dictate character actions. If everyone trusts him 100% no caveats then he can tell them anything and they'll believe it, which has potential for godmoding. frex if he told everyone their interests would be best served by turning themselves into the FBI, they'd have no reason not to do so since they trust him completely. That's why I'm saying the ability as presented is game-breaking.

Edited 2014-04-09 20:38 (UTC)

I don't think that's the case, personally? I've been in games where there's been a brief "your character feels this way" but the illusion ends up breaking, or something ends up happening that can't be kept under control. There are a ton of movies, shows and video games that use the trope. It could be that an unrelated occurrence could cause something to happen that makes things more obvious (like the farmhouse caused the destruction in the city). Aphrodite's children have charmspeak in the PJO novels, but Piper is not infinitely persuasive. The Anti-Spirals placed the entirety of Team Dai-Gurren under a mind control that made them believe they were living an incredibly happy life, but there was a way to get them out of it.

I'm not saying it was worded the best way but I don't think that it's necessarily an endgame we have to worry about, and I don't necessarily think this reaction is the right way to go about it, personally, before we've even gotten word back from the mods. If they have a mood-altering plot point, I'm sure they have it covered. They're probably only worried about "well it's going to be all out war against the aliens because no one trusts them, and we have a specific goal to reach." While I'll agree I'm not entirely comfortable and I can't speak on behalf of the mods, I feel that this is far-reaching and asking too much of a plot-heavy game to not have some kind of controls in place to make the plot actually happen.

The difference for me is the indefinite nature of it ("until further notice") and the strength of it. If it were just an influence to trust him then that's one thing, but this is a flat-out mandate and that's not something I'm comfortable with.

I understand the concerns, believe me, I don't like something being indefinite! I actually hate it, and I am uncomfortable, myself. Like I said, Matt is going to be wary of everyone around Ken and Phillip for a while and I'm not entirely okay with him losing that sense of distrust because it's character development I've had in-game with him. So I understand where you're coming from.

My concern, personally, is just that it seems like we're jumping on the mods without having heard back from them at all so far? This is kind of a lot over what could just be a simple misunderstanding, and saying "no point the game's over" without having heard reasoning, or even the method behind the mood-alteration, is reaching a little far.

I've had my complaints, believe me, you know better than pretty much anyone else, but I'm honestly a little uncomfortable, more than anything, about someone going "Yes now the game is over because they have a power that is currently unexplained." Until we get more information, I just feel like we shouldn't reach that far.

(no subject)

pianistofraielin - 2014-04-09 21:01 (UTC) - Expand

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mechanicalmaiden - 2014-04-09 21:06 (UTC) - Expand

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pianistofraielin - 2014-04-09 21:52 (UTC) - Expand

The way I see it is that the mods are attempting to make it so characters do NOT godmod that they have a "sinking suspicion" that the alien is evil/has ulterior motives. I've seen this happen in other games time and time again, where characters attempt to forgo the logical conclusion (in this case "there's nothing particularly untrustworthy about this guy therefore there isn't REALLY reason not to trust him" ) and when the "truth" comes out, they act smugly superior, calling out other people and acting as though they're complete idiots for attempting not to infomod with their characters.

That being said, I do think that this is SOMEWHAT over the top, and the wording could be a little less heavy-handed, especially if you have a character where it's IC to trust no one. I think there's a way to come to a compromise while making sure that people don't needlessly infomod, trying to make their characters come across as the "smartest" or "first to the punch".

The thing is, there's setup for characters not trusting. The group just fought one alien who said he was just the first. People being distrusting of others showing up after that one was defeated is perfectly in line with all that's gone before, which is why things would have to be done ICly to gain trust. Flat out saying that trust is a mandate doesn't address the issues at all.

And there's also a set-up for characters to begin to trust these guys. They're offering explanations and agreeing to work with the FBI in order to clean up this mess. There are IC reasons for characters to go both ways.

Like I said, I don't think that full-on mind control is necessarily the best way to go about things, but having had a lot of experience where characters continuously jump the gun at the expense of others, I also understand what the mods are trying to do here.

We understand what they're trying to do to, and I don't think any of us has a problem with that. Our problem - or at least my problem - is solely with the full-on mind control part.

(no subject)

centurian - 2014-04-09 20:19 (UTC) - Expand

I'm not even sure why there would be a PROBLEM in this case with people mistrusting the aliens... everything they've learned thus far points towards the aliens being a problem. Even Geoff's words ring against everything they've learned so far, that Tiny was a renegade etc, since the whole thing with killing Wise Snake was what the aliens wanted to GET more of them around. Why bother saying that (and then having the confirmation that more showed up when Wise Snake was dead!) if he was a renegade? Even logic makes this sound suspect =/

Again, as I said, I don't think this was the best way to go with things, but I understand the intention behind it.

It's definitely a concern and I've seen it happen and dealt with it before as a mod so believe me I get where it's coming from.

But in this specific case, characters have every reason not to trust more aliens. There's plenty of IC precedent for it and distrusting the new NPCs would not be infomodding at all for characters who've been around long enough to know about Tiny's goals and stated intentions. So there is a real, legitimate, IC reason for the distrust, not just a godmoded 'sinking suspicion.'

I feel that forcing characters to trust him despite IC evidence for why they shouldn't is godmoding in the opposite direction. That being said, I understand it's part of the plot we're being given, and my issue is primarily with the extent to which character actions are being dictated moreso than the concept in and of itself.

Adding in to say that I'm also a little uncomfortable with the mind control as it stands. I underwtand the reasoning for it, and ICly I could work with it with my characters, but OOCly I think it's a little strongly worded. Really, I have nothing new to say, just chiming in with others who've expressed discomfort with the absolute nature of the wording, and the implications for something that powerful.

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