MOD ANNOUNCEMENT

[theearth]

As many of you are aware, there has been a recent incident involving ourselves and a few players. We wish to address this matter here.

Firstly, we apologize not only for our delay in speaking on this, but for our own behavior during this. We do take fault for having been too inflexible on the matter which started everything. All of us are to blame for this inflexibility and we all take responsibility for it; not just one mod is fully to blame for anything which happened. The plot the player desired should not have been dealt with in the way that it was. Our reasoning had been that we had not seen evidence that the plot had been set in stone, we had not been given reason why change was necessary to reconcile the plots, and that the details behind this plot/what was needed to occur to bring it to fruition were not brought to us. We offered one compromise, it was not taken, and we should have been more flexible about offering further compromises. We are, again, sorry for that inflexibility on our end.

Secondly, to prevent any risk of this sort of situation ever happening again, we are discussing a frankly overdue new system of accounting for, organizing, and simplifying coordination between planned plots, both meta and player. Details on it will be coming soon.

And thirdly, the mod with the most concerns voiced about her has been issued a warning, and will be taking far less of a stance involving plot-related issues for the time being. We will monitor her behavior to ensure a repeat of this kind of situation does not occur again and, should it, she will be dealt with. In line with those concerns, while she will still be involved in plotting and whatever issues may come to us, the other mods will have far greater a say, and will be considered the figures of authority where directly addressing player concerns and needs is concerned.

However, what we stand firm about is that ganging up on a person while refusing their own comfort is not permissible. The mod in question had become extremely uncomfortable having so many people, including one not in the game, on her all at once while she was not feeling well. This was the reason warnings were issued. We do, however, concede to having been too impulsive in issuing warnings to all involved, and once more, we do apologize to the parties who had been warned without having acted severely enough to warrant a warning. All but one of the warnings has been lifted.

Finally, not all the mods are experienced mods, and even the more experienced mods will acknowledge they can always use some help. So please, we ask that if any of you have any suggestions on how we might improve to come and tell us.

Thank you and, once again, we all apologize for our respective parts in this situation.

Comments to this post are enabled. At request, they have been unscreened. If you have left a screened comment and would like it unscreened, please indicate so! As per the suggestion of Guin, if you would prefer to leave us a screened comment, please do so on the Mod Contact post.

We will make a second post addressing those concerns, resolutions, and invitation of a second round of feedback as soon as we're able.

UPDATE - 5/3:

The StE modteam is currently planning to come together as a group and discuss all the issues brought to them on this post. Linda and Guin will be present while we are all on to continue discussion as a full team in order to ensure that all points and issues are thoroughly addressed.

This discussion will be happening as soon as possible - but coordinating schedules has proven difficult, so please bear with us.

This post will be edited accordingly once the discussion's day and time have been set.

UPDATE - 5/3:

The discussion will begin Sunday, May 4th, 5:00 P.M. CDT/3:00 P.M. PST.

UPDATE - 5/4:

The discussion has begun and is underway; it's proven to be more intensive than anticipated and hasn't yet ended, but will resume tomorrow and continue until concluded.

In the meantime, screencaps of the discussion thus far are posted at Linda's public Plurk; further updates will be made on this post and the linked Plurk, including the date, once set, of the second post.

UPDATE - 5/5:

Discussion has now concluded - we're sorry for having been quiet for so long!

Formal address of the points brought to this post as well as a second OOC post and a mod apps announcement will be coming by the end of tomorrow - Tuesday, 5/6.

- THE STE MODS: Anduin, Blue, Mini, and Olga

Comments

[mugennoken]

I've spent lots and lots of time thinking about this today. I will try to not beat a dead horse however, or at least give my best go at it.

Full disclosure: Once, I too was a mod. I was a really terrible mod. I made many bad calls, was slack on prompt decisions, my player communication leaved much to be desired, and I steamrolled ahead always believing my decisions were the correct ones. Sometimes they were, but oftentimes they were not. So understand that I say this all only with the hope that it is of some use. Experience is supposed to be a good teacher, so maybe mine can offer something of merit.

I also have never really had any outright bad experiences with the moderators here. Perhaps at times I wish it could be a little more prompt, and oftentimes I wish things felt a little more clear - sometimes the direction of the mecha crew's sub-plot feels a bit out of my grasp - but that is more an indication than anything of how clear it is this game is far too large for only four of you to handle. My experiences are clearly not those of everyone, so it does sadden me to see things have gone down like this.

I see drops, I see hiatuses announced, considered, or just... quietly happening. I've seen no less than three people - named, actual people; not anons - just at a cursory glance who were gung-ho to app here but no longer will be for the foreseeable future. I get the feeling there's many more than that if I dug deep enough, just within comments on my own Plurk timeline. Within a couple of days, this has gone from the game I wanted to drag my friends to and bolster the population of, to help grow and expand the world of. Now? It feels as if trying to convince anyone of doing so would be difficult at best. Not without changes, which I know you are already well aware of.

Because I want to bring more people here. I want to have fun here. As of a couple days ago, literally right before this happened this also became my only game. I love Save the Earth. I love the concept. I love the people. I am more invested in the characters I have here, and the CR they have, than I have been with anything RP related in many, many years.

I know I'm not the only one who feels this way - clearly, as this whole post is evidence of - nor am I the only one who wants to help find a means of fixing matters. There's enough people that really do care about this game, their characters, and the world to - I hope - still make this work, even if they do not agree with you guys and your decisions. Either of late, or overall.

There's already a lot of really, really good suggestions here. Many of the things that have come to mind today for me would just be +1-ing those; Linda has them compiled quite nicely, and I hope they do you and all of us some good. So, I'll try to comment on some other things:

I have already talked about my concerns of information dispersal. I will try not to repeat much of that, and I didn't really realize how much it may be a problem overall until I was listening to other people today and understanding it can be actively difficult for anyone to get a good grasp of what's going on sometimes. Or more importantly, how they can do anything with it.

I can't look at them and give anyone an answer to that, either, and I've been here for nearly six months. While I've been more or less fine with how my things have gone - while anything directly I'm concerned about there is better saved for another time and venue - I am starting to see and understand how to some people, the present state of things can seem a little inaccessible as far as getting involved with things in any way that matters goes. Any way that does matter feels like it requires direct, behind-the-scenes discussion with the moderators, and... If there are this many people that are uncomfortable going face-to-face with mods, even if I have not personally felt that same discomfort? That's a problem.

Plot Posts haven't even felt nearly as active of late as they were earlier in the year, either. That feels indicative of something being amiss, in itself.

However, I do have an actual suggestion! It just does not relate directly to the problem at hand, so I will put it in a reply to this comment. It does however relate to concerns that I've seen raised at various points, particularly since Season 2 opened, and that is Application consistency.

Apps

[mugennoken]

People have expressed that Application standards appear to be inconsistent, and with that in mind I think it would be a good idea for you to go into how you all go about them. I've seen (and gone through!) numerous methods of approaching applications from a Moderator perspective, some much more successful than others.

Are applications a team effort? Are they only reviewed by a certain number of moderators? Do you have a standard set of guidelines for what - precisely - is acceptable and not for any given section? You have one person listed as an "App Mod," but what does that entail? Especially when replies are instead generally handled by Blue or Mini, and sometimes Olga. I normally wouldn't even be asking this, as I generally take that sort of thing on good faith, but enough people have broached it here and elsewhere that it feels worth making a point of inquiring directly.

It's obviously only one concern among many, many others but it is still worth noting and trying to find a solution for, or at least an answer to those wondering at this time. I haven't been subject to any decisions in this regard that would give me reason to think there was an inconsistency, but I'd think you owe it to yourselves and everyone here to be able to alleviate that worry as often as its come up, among the others.

As such, if you do not have a standard guideline available, I'd like to offer a suggestion: City of Ariel has an App Rubric (don't worry, link is SFW) which describes what is acceptable in each category. I do not know how successful that is for them (as I don't go there,) how cleanly they adhere to it, or if even the way its laid out would apply well enough to your situation at hand.

It serves as a good example, however - a concise, quick showing of what is and is not acceptable in every given category. For the unique elements of StE's application, a public guide such as this - or something like it - could prove invaluable towards any time that question comes up. It would allow you to make more certain you are internally consistent in this regard, or if you are questioned in it or need to explain a rejection or revision, it gives you something to point towards.

I point it out simply because I think something which shows your process could go towards mending some bridges, at least as a start, or perhaps help in your own abilities to process things.

At the least, I wanted to offer something because I want nothing more for this game to succeed and to just return to RPing in the place I've come to enjoy, and with the people I've come to love doing so with.

[knights_king]

I'm a firm believer that strength in numbers can help determine not only a popular course of action, but a course of action the entire group may turn out to be comfortable with. I can't speak for the the mod-team in particular, given that I'm a mere eggplant in comparison to the rest of the game, but from what I've read in this post and elsewhere, I can't say that there's going to be a clean fix to this, nor should there be. This all seems like a terrible mistake, driven by poor judgement, poor choices of words, different intents and quite a few mistakes in communication. If we aimed for a clean fix, we would cauterize the wound and it would be exceptionally difficult to heal the real issues beneath the surface.

To make a long point short, I have no real original opinions on this matter, but I do support suggestions for the mods to make endeavors towards improving the state of their positions as mods through serious introspection concerning how to address players, accept scrutiny concerning mod performance and juggle how plots are processed. I understand the stress of the word 'time' is immense especially when perhaps a dozen people are talking all at once, but that's why mod-teams aren't solo acts.

Once again, I have nothing new. I'm just here to drop my vote as a player for things to be changed and taken not just seriously, but realistically. We all want everything to be solved tomorrow and immediate changes shouldn't be the only thing we deal with. Whether it's changing the layout of the game's administration or just an inward look at performance and improvement, I just hope it can be done without taking any hard feelings into account. As angry as people can get in arguments and concerning slights in their own direction, I personally want to see if this can be done without letting those hard feelings take a hold of us.

I believe that for games to work, you need cooperation, communication, humility and patience. Adventurers and Dungeon Masters need each other to exist. Anyway, I hope someone can gain something from my incomprehensible nonsense. I think I made a point, but I'm not sure. I just really like this game and would like to continue liking this game and using all the commas in the world.

[sooooooooooooooooooock]

okay this is going to sound mean but this has to be said

no one cares about your feelings

no one cares about your 'disappointment'

no one cares that she 'wasn't feeling well'

they might care about the fact that Mini, as a person, was uncomfortable, they might care about the fact that you all, as people, are confused and out of your depth on these issues. But this isn't about you as people, this is about you as mods. People in positions of authority over other people do not share their feelings with everyone else, they do they assigned tasks. I don't know any of you personally. For all I know, you could be great people! But I just don't care. You're the mods of the games, not my friends. When I see a mod post, I want to see basic facts outlined in a concise matter, not excuses and a paragraph about feelings. You fucked up. Own up to it, and tell us what steps you are taking to correct it, end of discussion.

That alone would be bad enough, but that 'disappointment' PM is outright inexcusable. You are nobody's parents, you are the mods. You have fostered an atmosphere of condescension, bullying, and playing favorites, and even as you take steps to correct these issues you still revel in them.

At this point I'm not convinced Mini would be enough. The entire mod team needs an overhaul, and badly.

[godsavemysocks]

Olga was the uncomfortable one.

Mini was the one who's most likely responsible for the silencing tactic pms.

[sockingedly]

I'm not sure what it means that you'll make a second post "as soon as you're able", but I really recommend that you decide you're able to do that sooner rather than later. I've talked to a lot of people who are troubled over the radio silence we've gotten from you. Anduin says something about being around more and then the same day announces a two month hiatus. Olga also goes on hiatus. And we hear literally nothing else from the rest of you anywhere. I was trying to withhold a lot of my judgement until your second post, because I honestly want to see how you handle responding to what's been brought to you here, but if it takes much longer my fleeting interest in this game will be gone.

I'm going to save any further opinions I have on the mod team and what needs to happen for now, especially considering they're more radical than most I've seen posted here. I realize you may be busy, but I strongly recommend that you make your second post a top priority because a lot of us (the players) are in limbo with this game right now.

And for the love of god, when you finally do grace us with your presence, don't start the post with an excuse as to why it took so long to hear anything.

[upsocks]

Mods, I'm gonna be blunt here, you need to get your act together and give us some indication you're actually working on this instead of just calling hiatuses.

You all have lives outside of this hobby and I understand that, but you're having some serious charges leveled against you right now and the fact that there's been nothing but near-complete silence on the mods' end is extremely disheartening. I've been trying to save most of my judgment for when you respond to this, but hearing nothing from any of you ever since this post went up, except a single response to the AC problem mentioned earlier, is not a look that is in your favor.

It's fine to take the time to look over and discuss the complaints and suggestions issued, and I certainly hope that's the case for this long silence, but considering your track record, you better make it clear that is exactly what you're doing.

People should not have to be looking at a third-party plurk for updates, and we definitely shouldn't be hearing this from someone other than the mods themselves.

The longer you go without answering these concerns, or even giving any indication you're working on answering concerns, the angrier people are going to get.

[stopsockertime]

keeping this simple

respond somewhere on here, so we can pretend you are reading these posts or you all need to stop being pansies and step down.

being an ostrich about all this isn't doing anything and is pissing us off.

[savemysocks]

Actually, considering that Anduin just dropped, I don't think there's any reason to keep hoping for any sort of accountability from this mod team anymore.

Someone else put it best: Obstinacy, absence, and a lack of transparency has been a running issue with these mods, and now we're seeing all of it in action at the same time. I hate to say it, but unless that followup mod post happens soon and comes with a free unicorn, I'll be leaving STE.

[godsavemysocks]

everyone's complaining about a lack of shit going on, so:

http://www.plurk.com/p/jz809q

the last few messages indicate that there'll be a mod discussion tomorrow and that there will be a response after that

even if you missed the new update to the post, here's some context on what's going on and all that

[theasshole]

I hope someone provides a full transcript of this discussion after it happens.

[pianistofraielin]

Hello everyone. I had a player come to me with a concern that they did not feel comfortable posting themselves, and I am relaying the following, written by them, on their behalf:

I feel this needs to be said. It isn't just the mods making me feel like communication isn't possible. I'm not naive enough to think that people are going to function maturely on anoncomms, but the fact is that it feels like the anoncomm influences on this post are stronger than normal. What's clear is that there's a significant portion of people contributing to the discourse in the roleplay community who don't care about fixing the game and are just here to watch it burn instead.

Because of this some people feel that they can't speak up, because even if they did so from a sock account, just presenting an opinion that disagrees with the overwhelmingly negative majority would be met with aggression and hostility. This happened to one such individual who objectively critiqued both sides, despite the players impacted by this situation admitting themselves that they felt they acted in error.

Amid all the calls for transparency from the mods, I think we should be aware that the player end of things is contributing to a lack of it. For the record, I would never deny anyone what they need to do to feel safe speaking out, but unfortunately it ultimately leads to an environment where what one says without the cover of anonymity must be carefully and meticulously considered, while those who do use the cover of anonymity can speak more freely. I'm not accusing those who are using socks of being out to get people, but I think it's important to note how intimidating it can be and the effect it has on the discourse. We need as many people to feel free to communicate as possible. Not everyone is comfortable taking the same risks as others are, and for some people even posting under a sock in this environment can feel unsafe.

This is a valid point. This player is not the only one to have voiced this concern to me, either.

Please remember that we are trying to foster open discussion among the playerbase, and shutting down those who voice an unpopular opinion is detrimental to that. I would like to remind everyone here that the people behind the sock accounts are still people, and to treat them as respectfully as you would if they were posting with their name attached.

I would like to emphasize that if you are uncomfortable voicing your opinion publicly on this post or privately on the mod contact, you are more than welcome to bring your concerns privately to either myself and/or Linda by way of PM or PP. We will gladly relay your message wherever it needs to go.

[nowi_wins]

+1 to everything this person said. I have been thinking all of those things for a while now but was scared to say anything. But just knowing I'm not the only one who feels that way makes it easier.


And let me add that I really want this game to survive. I'm still new here but I've really enjoyed playing so far. We can still save this game, but any game needs both players and mods to work together. Mistakes have been made. We all know this. But I think it's better to focus on correcting the mistakes and ensuring they aren't made again than to focus on what kind of punishment should be applied for making them.

Aannnd hopefully that wasn't too rambly and made sense.

[seriallylucky]

I had been waffling about saying anything, but... I'm scared, and I think speaking will help.

Personally, I've never had a problem with the mods, although I've also never had significant interaction with any except Blue. I do, however, recognize that a problem exists. Until Friday morning I had no idea that problem was more than slow communication in all directions, though.

The scary thing is the amount of vitriol going on here. I was around in late May/early June of last year, when there was another big mod-team shakeup and it looked like the fate of the game was in jeopardy, and that was not half so intimidating. A lot of that, I think, was Lina responding throughout the comments; not with specifics, but with reassurance that she was there, that she was aware of the concerns, and that she cared. And that hasn't been happening here, at all. As far as I can tell the entire mod team, apart from a brief spurt from Anduin, disappeared off the face of the planet somewhat before this post went up. And that's distressing.

But even more distressing is the comments here. I haven't made a specific survey, but it feels like a lot of the people commenting here are doing so with sock accounts. New sock accounts, in the cases I've checked. And while that's somewhat understandable, given what I think the problem is (tip for the future: if you feel like an issue should be mentioned to the community at large, at least say what that issue is. "There's been an incident" is probably not enough unless you want to look like politicians.), it's worrisome.

See, I love StE. I've rarely been as excited for anything in a game, and never as consistently, as here - and that excitement is just to participate, even in the absence of specific plots. And it feels like it's in more danger now than it was eleven months ago - when the post title included "+ save save the earth", and a mod was communicating the whole time, and mod applications went up less than sixty hours after the original post, and the results of those applications were announced about a week later. As I said above, I'm scared.

[elduderino]

Hey, look, don't worry, man. You're just stressin' yourself out unnecessarily.

If you look at the uh, uh, the edit up there, it looks like, like we're going to be getting some answers soon. Until then, just, uh, take it easy, man. I have a feeling all this is all gonna work itself out somehow, so, uh, have hope or whatever.

[darnsocks]

The current modteam needs to go. No excuses, no suspensions, nothing.

And I suppose I'm in the minority when I agree with the warning against the player who started all this being left in place. Because the modteam looks worse, but they didn't stir this shit alone.

[glittershy]

I might be in the minority here, but I'm going to say that I think this has all gotten out of hand.

I appreciate the attempt at transparency and holding the mods accountable, but I'm not sure what more plurk discussions like that one are supposed to accomplish. Olga and Anduin are stepping down, they will be opening mod apps and implementing the calendar suggested to them. I'll be honest and say I'm not comfortable with Mini remaining as a plot mod, given the complaints against her about inflexibility and that it seems she's more interested in pursuing a plot than accommodating player impact on that plot.

But I'll also be honest and say I don't understand what another plurk like the one shown in the screencaps is going to accomplish that making a second DW post with all of that information and allowing players to ask questions on it won't do. That plurk reads like an interrogation two players are giving the mods, and while I understand and appreciate that the players are trying to give voice to concerns that other players confided in them, as well as make sure the mods actually answer them, I don't feel it's doing more than another post that would allow for questions or discussions from all players.

Of course, this is just one opinion, and a sock one at that, as I don't feel comfortable saying this logged in at the moment, but I did want to say it.

+1

[onecream_fivesugar]

Don't really have much to add to this. I don't care whether Mini stays on as plot mod or not, but I'm new to the game and don't really have much past experience with her.

I find the tone of that plurk is ridiculous and isn't helping the situation at all. I feel it was made with good intentions but it could have been handled better.

[acrylicblend]

I'm not going to discuss Mini's impact on the playerbase since that's already been discussed at length. I would, however, like to mention how impractical it is for Mini to stay on as a plot mod.

1) Working as a plot mod requires communication with the players.

Every time there's a plot, players will have questions. Maybe something is unclear. Maybe they've thought of a possibility the mods have not. Whatever the reason, it's natural for players to contact the mods for further information, and it's natural for the plot mod to fill this role since they're the one most intimately familiar with the information at hand. While another mod could communicate with the players on Mini's behalf, this will require a game of mod telephone, which could make communication inefficient and overly long.

2) Conflict between player plots and mod plots will happen

I don't need to list an example, the drama with Batty is example enough. Mini has proven to be inflexible when it comes to balancing both. Even if she won't be in a position to discipline or reprimand players, she's still in a position where she can continue to be as stubborn as ever, especially if the new mods don't feel confident in contradicting an old mod who's more familiar with the game's plot than they are.

3) Plot mod can easily turn into a fluff position

I may have misread Mini's intention, but "just plotting" seems rather vague. Is she going to be involved in plot discussions and nothing else? Plot writeups? Will she be playing NPCs? If it's just the first, then she'll have very little power (assuming the new mods are willing to be assertive with her), but she'll be taking up a mod slot that could be filled by mods who can fill multiple roles. Taking on more work would be optimal in any other situation, but again, this may require contact with the players, and this may be better filled by someone more diplomatic.

I'm not going to sit here and talk about how Mini is the devil and needs to be run out on the rails, but while I understand her desire to stay and help contribute to the game, I don't think staying on in the capacity she's described is practical.

[stopsockertime]

yo pheonix wright imma going to let you finish but you need to sit the fuck down.

can't believe i am on the mods side temporarily during this debacle. cause honestly, if part of the reasons the mods were in hot water was because of ban warnings, you would honestly would and should be hit with a warning in general. you guys are not the rp police. you are not batman. the mods did not kill uncle ben nor did they let gwen stacey die. stop acting like it

you both need to apologize to the mods first and let them talk talk first before prompting some questions, both the ones missed and the ones given to you in private.

personally, i have no clue why you would be against G-Docs since unlike plurk you can open it up to the public to be able to view, and check previous edits made to it. it removes the need for pastebinning/excessive screen caps which is another thing entirely.

fyi, you don't need to state something for the record if you straight up tell them you are going to do something.

TLDR;

[shineonyou]

whoops you can totally tell i'm a debate coach. my secret's out. i'm totally game with apologizing, though ahaha. i noticed about halfway through i kicked into teacher mode, which is my bad.

i mentioned to another sock how we were kinda hoping for more of an organic discussion about all the game issues, but that ended up not happening at all since guin and i got caught up on things that confused us about the gdoc. we mainly wanted the specifics about the original situation, and then since a lot of player complaints have been about how plots have been handled and how players find it hard to interact with the main plot, we wanted to get an idea of their view of character's roles within the main game plot. it just kinda took about 5000 million too many words to articulate that ahaha.

do you mind if i ask you for suggestions? as to how to approach more discussion with the mods?

[pheromonecoffee]

Okay so I have mostly stayed away during this time but I have to ask one really simple question:

This post has been up for days. The questions about who was involved, why and what's going to happen about it have been up since within hours of the post going up. Our concerns about things have been clear the whole time.

It is clear that a large chunk of the playerbase is uncomfortable with one of the remaining mods. I'm biased, I have nothing against Blue, but even if I felt comfortable with Mini, I wouldn't have after I read the gdoc. Mini made choices on her own that caused the entire game to basically implode for half a week. In the gdoc all I see is apologies with caveats. It is clear a lot of players are asking for consequences to actions that hurt not just one player, not just a group of players, but the entire game.

I am not saying this because I want to burn the witch. I'm saying this because I want this to go back to my pretendy funtiems escapism game that has an interesting and unique plot and feels like somewhere I am at home and comfortable with the players I am playing against:

What are you going to do about it?

Are you going to value the comfort of the playerbase or the comfort of a mod? Are you going to instill the same consequences as if someone had a dozen or so players come forward and complained about being uncomfortable with them? Or are you going to sit there and let someone who clearly makes a lot of people uncomfortable stay in power? And Mini, is your spot as a mod worth the drama it's currently causing? The fact your reputation is getting dragged out to be gossiped and discussed completely to the point that you will be saddled with a bad rep for the remainder of your time in DW RP? And now your reputation getting stuck to Save the Earth for dozens of players who just want to play in a game? Is that worth it? I'm addressing you specifically here because it doesn't seem like you understand where we're coming from in our discomfort.

What are you going to do about it?

Because this is literally killing the game. Players who are invested and interested are hiatusing and dropping left and right. All I'm hearing on plurk anymore is one side is taking it overboard, now the other side is, now this side's to blame, now that is. And I am exhausted, and I'm not even involved deeply. Now we know all the whos and whys and hows.

So that we can all decide if we're going to drop or keep playing, how important is player feedback to you guys, and what are you going to do about it?

(I'll admit I have been talking to Guin the entire time about my current discomforts so he's well aware. I'm disappointed in the tone of the plurk, something I'm going to address personally and privately since I know at least one of the parties to be comfortable enough being frank with him, but I'm disappointed as a whole to the point where I just want to see what's going to happen now.)

[hawaiianheir]

Finally logging in and seconding basically everything about this. I'm exhausted, I'm pretty sure the playerbase as a whole is exhausted, and I'm kind of uncomfortable with Mini being on as a mod given the gdoc shows she's mainly at fault for what caused this to happen.

This has been going on for at least half a week, can we get some closure on the matter sooner latter than later?

We need to be discussing more about "what are we going to do" then "what has been done".

[elduderino]

Goddammit, man. I've been defending you guys this whole fuckin' time, hoping that we'd finally get some fuckin' answers last night after you guys had your, uh, your little pow-wow.

Now I feel like a naive fuckin' asshole. Six hours and all we got was that? I've accomplished more in one fuckin' hour, man, and that's after I've lit up a few joints. Where the fuck was everybody? Where are the fuckin' solutions we were hoping for? And what about some fuckin' answers about the future of this fuckin' game, man?

I wasn't going to go all tl;dr on you, but it's starting to look like maybe I should. Okay, my thoughts, all below:

1. Put up a new fucking mod post, man. It's been four fuckin' days, and everyone has to go to plurk to get any answers about what's going on. An official mod post would go a long way in uh, re-establishing goodwill between the mods and the players.

2. When you finally do that, explain what happened, how you're going to fix it, and what exactly you plan on doing in the future to keep it from happening again. Be genuine. I'm not the sort of guy to go around surfing around college websites or anything, but this fuckin' article on the UMass website pretty much sums up what needs to be done. If you're not sure your apology is meaningful, swing it by Guim, or uh, Linda before you post it.

My, uh, motivation, man, it went from being reasonably fuckin' moderate to somewhere down the fuckin' shitter. Looking at the Hiatus/Drop List, I'm sure there's a lot of other people who feel the same fuckin' way. I know you guys all have real lives to worry about, but let's work towards a speedy resolution. Because if we don't, man, well, there might not be an StE left to save.

+1

[onecream_fivesugar]

[shineonyou]

I've been hitting up other people's responses about how to run the discussion asking for feedback, but I'll go ahead and make a comment here.

legit legit legit guys speak up come talk to me or guin. We both absolutely adore this game, and we definitely don't want to see it burn. Whatever you think we can do to help this situation, just tell us.

[hawaiianheir]

All I really want is for this to be resolved at this point tbh. I think everyone has a grasp of who did/said what, I feel like if things are going to get done anytime here in the next few days that we need to work on "okay how are we fixing this so the game gets back on track." And we need to do it now.

The game's been at a basic standstill for almost a week now while we sort all this out. That's as much of a gamekiller as mod drama. It kills momentum in the metaplot, it kills momentum in player plot because people are tired of outside drama, it kills momentum - period.

Not anything against you, Guin, or the Mods, I just think we need to fast-track the solutions rather than getting all the explanations out of the way.

(And while I appreciate the mods trying to work together, there has got to be some way you guys can communicate quicker. Post-it notes or something, idk. The fact that this much is what we got out of like 8 hours worth of discussion is kiiiiind of ridiculous.)

[centurian]

I've had kinda a rough two months in regards to RL things, but as this game is what spurred me into getting back into RP in the first place, I feel like this needs to be said.

I'll say first and foremost that I have never had any issues in regards to Mini. While some of her replies to my plot-related questions haven't been as detailed as I would like, and she has seemed somewhat inflexible at times, those have been relatively minor quibbles compared to what others have said here.

But the fact of the matter remains that a significant portion of the game feels uncomfortable with Mini staying on in any sort of modding capacity. Quite a few people have commented that their staying in the game hinges on whether or not she steps down or not. Furthermore, quite a few people have ALSO been deterred on apping to the game in the future, in part due to her handling of things. Taking these things into consideration, Mini staying on might very well be an extremely poor choice for the game moving forward.

Modding might not be a democracy, but when player discomfort is this great, the mods should consider the game's best interest. And based on what's been said so far, Mini should probably step down.

[detectivetroll]

Seconding everything in this comment, especially in regards to Mini. That's been my exact experience with her as well - no issues aside from those few minor things.

[savemysocks]

The "discussion" so far is an embarrassment, and I don't just mean the silly high school debate team vibe it gives off. The long wait between replies and the occasional comment of "it's been so long, I don't really remember" just shows how disorganized and closed-mouthed this mod team has gotten. None of you guys come off as invested or even all that interested in accomplishing anything but getting this discussion behind you already. The attitude you give off is one of "oh sorry, did you say something? anyway here are more reasons why none of this is my fault blah blah blah extenuating circumstances blah blah my intentions blah."

I strongly believe none of them should stay, and that goes double for Mini. She admits herself that she has a problem with wording things badly, and that's not a quality I want to see in anyone with a position of power. She's already made this place hostile and unwelcoming for a surprising number of players. Her condescending attitude and curt replies, intentional or no, alienate people and make them uncomfortable to the point where they feel they need to get another mod involved as a go-between and bring a friend. And in a game where concerns mysteriously slip through the cracks this frequently, it's a HORRIBLE standard to have set.

The attitude I'm getting from her is when it comes to plots is more of the same opaqueness and stubbornness that caused problems in the first place. You should tell players WHY they can't do something, or drop hints as to what direction they should be looking in, as opposed to wording like "all you find is..." "the npc won't speak to you" and "that won't do anything." If all your players missed out on the one bone fragment you threw their way, and this happens repeatedly, then maybe it wasn't enough. Work with your players. Give them something in response to their questions besides a constant stone wall. Even if the problem only has one solution in your mind, give different people different angles to work from. I get that players shouldn't have to be spoonfed, I do. But if the players ask a lot of questions and try a lot of things within their character's IC abilities and get nothing for it, it discourages them from trying again, and they start to feel railroaded. You need to be able to provide alternate avenues, so the many people with the diverse collection of talents can get involved in the ways they'd like to be involved, even if it doesn't jive with your initial plans. Again, flexibility. A willingness to work WITH your players instead of seeing them as a herd of cats you need to get marching in a straight line. Yeah, that's a lot of work and it's brain draining, especially in a game this size. I've been there, and I can tell you that's what plot mods do. You've got to be open to new possibilities and encourage creativity.

And you shouldn't need to be told this.

As others have said, blame-shifting language like "It was never my intention" or "I'm sorry but I was stressed at the time" shockingly, continues to not be a proper apology. I'm still trying to figure out how, after everything, this is still happening.

Communication seems to be a HUGE problem with this mod team. So much doesn't get discussed or gets forgotten or everybody was just too flustered or busy to take responsibility in the unusual occasion someone has a problem and braves a snippy reply from Mini. It's given the entire place an air of "don't bother, you'll just get on the mod's bad side and it'll get swept under the rug anyway". I don't want to hear more "I'm sorry but I've been busy" or "Whoops, I guess I missed that" I want to know what is being done to FIX THIS.

And on a related note, if we have reached the point where we have people stepping up to offer services as a PR team or a freaking liaison to go between mini and the playerbase, we need an entirely new mod team. Every other game in existence has a mod team in place that handles their own matters without needing translators and go-betweens. Even without considering the communication breakdown just waiting to happen with yet more middlemen, that this is even being entertained as a solution is fucking embarrassing and symptomatic of MUCH larger problems.

Step down, guys. Install new mods. Players are already communicating their unhappiness with the drop/hiatus page, and if you guys really feel entitled to stay on after the damage you've done, I'll be joining them.

[shineonyou]

yet again commenting here and apologizing about the tone of things. sob im a high school debate coach, so i approached the situation in my teacher mode, which was definitely not what i should have done at all in the least.

[pianistofraielin]

I want to add in that Mini's said she's unavailable (I assume due to work) until 10PM PST tonight and tomorrow.

We're still going to try to get everything resolved ASAP but I just wanted to let you guys know what to expect.

ETA: She mentioned this in the discussion plurk, after Linda had already posted last night's screencaps.

[sugarslice]

Mini here. I've stepped down from a mod position. I'm waiting on a reply from Blue to do whatever needs to be done.

Once again, I'm sorry for my part in this mess.

[theearth]

Hey, everyone. <3 Sorry for the period of silence on the official end!

Discussion has concluded. Responses to the points brought to this post (which will begin in a new top-level comment, for condensation's sake!) and the second OOC post as well as mod apps will be up tomorrow evening (by the end of Tuesday, 5/6).

Responses: The Fiasco

[theearth]

Our apologies once again for having taken this long to respond.

The OOC post is coming shortly - within the hour - after this comment is posted; first - before we move forward - we'll formally respond to the main points made and issues brought up on this post.

Who wrote the PM warnings?
This was Mini - their issuing was rash all around; tension was high, nobody officially signed off on them, and none but the one sent to Batty were originally intended as warnings. All four warnings issued have by now been rescinded, and the players have been given more due apologies.

Who wrote the first OOC announcement?
This was Olga, who was still upset and uncomfortable over the night before. The original declared intention at the time had been to give some sort of public sign that something had happened, without pointing at or singling out anyone. As with the PMs, however, it was not fully signed-off on.

What was Mini's role in what happened, and what happens to her?
Mini was, again, the one who wrote the PMs, which she has admitted was a bad choice, and that after having made it that she'll no longer feel comfortable serving as a representative toward players. Thus, she has now agreed to step down.

What was Blue's role in what happened with Mini and Batty?
Blue liaised between Batty and Mini in the attempted compromise for the switching of the dates.

What was Anduin's role?
Anduin also had access to the Plurk which Batty opened between herself, Linda, Guin, Leriel, and Olga; she was not online at the time to see it or comment.

Was bias against Batty or any of the other players involved a factor?
It wasn't - if ever in the future it seems it might be in a particular situation, said situation will be deferred to an impartial mod.

Aside: What was going on with Anduin and the AC?
Anduin herself has responded here - the ongoing case pointed to is result of a misunderstanding coming around with discussing AC and AC response needs one-on-one. No-question accountability is something that's definitely going to need to be held to from here on out in this department - from now on, while it will be fine to contact a mod that you'll need to take a strike, respond to AC late, etc., it will not be taken as an alternative to responding to the AC post itself rather than a heads-up or request for extra time.

Responses: The Issues

[theearth]

I apologize that we cannot give any harder answers than the ones I am about to give at this time! However, the current primary issues that have been witnessed in or in regards to the StE modteam have included accountability, transparency, certainty and efficiency of communication (between mods and player-to-mod), plot management, availability of in-game information, and team organization.

It is a laundry list, to be sure - which is only a sign that the modteam in both its makeup and structure is going to need a huge overhaul.

Anduin and Mini have decided to step down from the modteam entirely, and Olga has decided to step down to a helper mod position after her hiatus concldes.

In the meantime, we will be opening mod applications tonight - and while we can brainstorm solutions before our new team is chosen (including a plot calendar system, changes to the timeline, new info pages, and a system/schedule/organization for modly agendas), they're to be discussed and solidified afterwards!